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Understanding ActiveTune Trims INGL vs INST

chrisgardellchrisgardell Posts: 41Staff User

Typically, when running in live correction mode, ActiveTune uses a blend of two correction methods to achieve the desired air fuel ratio.

INST ( instant correction ) this correction is the mathematical result of known air mass and known AFR. It assumes complete combustion and under perfect circumstances would be able to work all on it's own to achieve the desired target. This correction method introduces very little error but can't overcome inefficiencies in combustion which lead to missed target values for long periods of time.

INGL ( integral correction ) this correction acts relatively slowly to take up the slack when the instant correction alone is not able to hit the target. This correction is always changing by 1% per period determined by the AF delay map (ms). If the measured ratio is too lean it will increase by one and conversely if the measured value is too rich it will decrease by one. Because this correction is not relative to RPM or throttle it can introduce error when either is changed rapidly and therefore isn't always best to be used while dyno tuning.

TOT ( total correction ) this is simply the result of INST plus INGL clamped to within the total correction limit. This is the value that is actually applied to the current fuel mass when operating in live correction mode.

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Comments

  • T.REINDERS@MCHSI.COMT.REINDERS@MCHSI.COM Posts: 3Verified User

    I purchased the standard flash kit for my 2017 FZ10 (using the unrestricted mode), it is basically stock with a Yoshimura slip on. The additional power is much appreciated, but I am thinking about getting the active tuning kit now. My question is, how much additional power can be expected with the active tuning software? I'm sure the bike would be more efficient, however, I'm more interested in performance. If it doesn't add much, are there other modifications that the active tuning would enhance (above and beyond performance gains from new hardware)?

  • jason@ftecu.comjason@ftecu.com Posts: 675Staff User

    Hi,

    Performance gains vary per bike and it depends on how close to perfect you are with your base file currently. Active Tune will keep your bike in the set AFR range for your whole ride. This makes sure you get every little last bit of performance you can out of the bike no matter altitude and weather conditions. It is utilized by all of our pro racers and teams for that very reason.

    Thanks,

    Jason A.

  • T.REINDERS@MCHSI.COMT.REINDERS@MCHSI.COM Posts: 3Verified User

    Jason, thanks for the feedback. I understand how it can tune more precisely with the new O2 sensor, but is that basically about the only difference, more precision sensor = tighter upstream control? My system should still be making similar adjustments from the existing O2 sensor, the MAP sensor, etc.

    Or is there some fundamental control algorithm differences?

    Thanks,

    Todd R

  • kento_ftecukento_ftecu Posts: 710Staff User

    The stock O2 sensor is incapable of assisting the ECU in making fueling changes anywhere past very small throttle settings and very low rpm cruising speeds because it can only tell the ECU that the mixture is lean or rich, not by how much. Anywhere past those settings and the stock system reverts to the stock TPS and MAP maps.

  • jason@ftecu.comjason@ftecu.com Posts: 675Staff User

    Todd,

    In addition to Kento's response I'd like to add a few things.

    The stock O2 sensor does communicate to the ECU just like ours does. However, our O2 sensor is a wideband and our sensor then plugs into our LAMBDA controller, then to the ECU. In addition to the small operating range the stock system has, it will make minor adjustments for emissions control, not for performance gains. There is no way the stock system could possibly see any precise and accurate AFR readings and be able to adjust them quickly enough on the fly without a LAMBDA controller. Our software algorithms will be totally different due to the difference in hardware and complexity of software.

    Thanks,

    Jason A.

  • T.REINDERS@MCHSI.COMT.REINDERS@MCHSI.COM Posts: 3Verified User

    Thanks for all the feedback!

    Do you need a dyno to tune the system, is it possible to just ride it and carry along a laptop?


    Thanks,

    Todd

  • jason@ftecu.comjason@ftecu.com Posts: 675Staff User

    Hi,

    The best way to use this system is to go out for a track session then come back in and apply the learned trim values to your basemap.

    See link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiEnBOfN3RE&t=8s

    Thanks,

    Jason A.

  • tt650r@yahoo.comtt650r@yahoo.com Posts: 10Verified User

    Hey there so what you are saying is that you would need a laptop connected while riding to collect the learned values to be applied later? I do not have ready access to a dyno but I can carry a laptop while riding as the values need to be collected during a live session I assume.Thank you and sorry if the question is obvious

  • jason@ftecu.comjason@ftecu.com Posts: 675Staff User

    Hi,

    A laptop connected while riding is not necessary, or probably safe. A computer to connect to after your ride would be what you want. Your bike can make the adjustments while you ride if you have your Live Correction Mode set to ENABLE. But if you want the latest trim values to apply to your basemap you need a computer for that. The video link I posted above should walk you through the steps of this process.

    Thanks,

    Jason A.

  • tt650r@yahoo.comtt650r@yahoo.com Posts: 10Verified User

    Thanks one again for the quick answer,the blurry picture is coming into focus now..Much appreciate your help..

  • tt650r@yahoo.comtt650r@yahoo.com Posts: 10Verified User

    In the end the process of applying the learned trim values to my base map does not function with a Graves file so the video doesn't apply with my bike an 18 R1 with a Graves tune..

  • jason@ftecu.comjason@ftecu.com Posts: 675Staff User

    Hi,

    Learned Trim Values cannot be applied to a Graves map since their fueling is locked down. You can have the Active Tune working and adjusting while you ride with a Graves file, but you are unable to save any Trim Values after the ride.

    Thanks,

    Jason A.

  • tt650r@yahoo.comtt650r@yahoo.com Posts: 10Verified User

    That's what I am doing unfortunately it's dark and 45 degrees out when I get up and dark again and raining when I get off work so an extended ride has been hard to..Thanks

  • jason@ftecu.comjason@ftecu.com Posts: 675Staff User

    Hi,

    If you are looking to apply Learned Trim Values to your base map you will need to start with an Unrestricted file. Otherwise you can keep running the Graves file with the ActiveTune just adjusting while you ride.

    Thanks,

    Jason A.

  • Hi guys, I spent couple of hours yesterday working with an Active tune kit and I have to say as an electrical engineer who develops embedded systems and chips, it worked very very well. Few questions on the Active tune algorithms and/or best way to use it.

    1. Based on the first post in this thread it appears you are using only PI from the typical PID algorithm (Proportional -Integral - Derivative). Is that correct? So rate of change of AFR doesn't affect the rate of AFR correction - it is simple incremental rate change and longer riding time would get the numbers close to the correct values.
    2. What is the sampling rate and the correction rate - in mili-seconds or similar?
    3. What is the best testing style to establish proper AFR numbers? Just ride as usual (glitchy throttle), corners, etc or get on a straight road and simply pick a good gear to run through all TPS values and full RPM range and hold steady RPM for Xseconds for sampling/correction to do its thing?
    4. Does a gear matter (seems MAP loads would vary with the gear chosen) so what is recommended here?
    5. Given integral portion of the algorithm, I would think longer riding sessions would yield more stable and accurate results. What is recommended 10min; 20min; something else?
    6. I made 6 passes (with live mode disabled) and while numbers were converging and getting smaller I would still end up with the field or two with significant correction (high teens). Is there a recommendation what numbers are small enough that I can declare victory? Live mode limits appaear to be "+-25 (not sure what the units here are) so as long as you have no data field above/bellow these numbers you should be in the clear. Correct?
    7. Is looking at AFR monitor misleading without the load on the engine (ie in neutral and revving the engine to desired RPM then observe AFR)? As you can see, no access to dyno.
    8. While getting close to my AFR targets (default), numbers were still little lean (for example at idle running perfect 14.7 where target is 14.0). Is this a byproduct of no load on the engine or do I need to do a couple more passes (+ enable live correction)?
    9. I was riding without "Live Mode" correction - is this not correct? Should live mode be on while riding then feeding that data back into the firmware base map? Yields better results or PID algorithm actual only runs during live mode?

    Sorry for the barrage of questions but this product is really really cool stuff for geeks like me.

    Thx.

  • One more question - do modes chosen for testing matter? If yes, what mode to choose?

  • jason@ftecu.comjason@ftecu.com Posts: 675Staff User

    Hi,

    Thanks for the kind words on the system we worked very hard on it.

    1: That is correct the system is used as a PI controller so no Derivative is in the process.

    2: That's all dependent based off your AF_DELAY map as the system will want to work slower when the engine is moving slower then faster when the engine is moving faster. This is so the system doesn't way overshoot or undershoot.

    3: I like to do mine on a dyno so I'll usually just use 3rd and 4th gears and I try to go through every TPS column throughout the whole RPM range. Do a few of those and apply them then it gets you real close.

    4: If you want it to be perfect in every gear then yes gear matters. We usually don't see the MAP vary drastically enough to suggest a normal user to do sessions in every gear though.

    5: Yes the longer the session the better usually 20 minutes plus is ideal.

    6: The numbers you see are percentage based. I believe stock the correction limits allow for -10 and +20. Once you get down to 5's I'd say you should be ok but it should always be finding more ways to be more efficient depending on the weather, elevation, etc...

    7: Having no load is not ideal for using the Monitor I definitely recommend viewing it on a dyno or using it while riding then looking at corrections afterwards.

    8: I suggest enabling live correction and seeing if it gets you closer to your desired 14.0

    9: I suggest leaving live correction mode on as it will correct when you ride then correct more from it's last correction. I believe the system works best with live correction on just from my personal experience with it. But once you get it close I suggest your turn down your correction limits so the bike doesn't go super lean or super rich if the O2 or LAMBDA controller fails.

    Modes do not really matter as your fueling will be the same for all modes. Only real difference will most likely be your ETV values. I recommend running it in your most powerful mode.

    Thanks,

    Jason A.

  • Excellent answers and tips Jason. Thanks a bunch. This provides so much more insight (especially AF_DELAY and your personal experience on what works best). Also a huge thanks for reducing the correction range limit after the tune in the case O2 sensor goes bad. That is a very, very good point.

    Will wait for a warmer day (currently 29degrees) then try again. Look forward to doing it right!

    I'll post the procedure followed and the results here when I get around to it.

    Thanks again.

    BTW, for others who are interested, by changing your exhaust (going from stock to Akrapovic) my engine was mostly running in the 16.8-17.9 AFR range (even saw some high 18s). That is very lean and would certainly have long term detrimental effects. If you are considering whether you need to change your fueling after the exhaust change, I would say its a must have.

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